130: Adapt or Be Left Behind: The Future of Leadership | Deborah McLaughlin

Transcript

Introduction to Debora McLaughlin – Damon introduces Debora,highlighting her expertise in leadership, adaptability, and coaching.

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if you have an environment where there's not psychologicalsafety where people don't you know don't feel that that

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they're supported by the company you know or they don't feelsupported by the team and there's High work stress it's

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being aware of those environmental factors that mightinfluence how fast your people are going to move or not or

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what resistance you might be met with is your company builtto last here's the brutal reality business life fans has

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shrunk from 75 years to just six only those who adapt WillSurvive today's

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guest has spent over two decades navigating organizationalchange and her groundbreaking work shows how companies

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can measure and build adaptability across 15 key Dimensionswelcome to the learn at all podcast the show for

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today's leaders who want to get ahead and stay ahead becausewe believe that great leaders aren't born or made they

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are constantly in the making I'm Damon lmy and co-hostingwith me today is Darren Bridget and we're both from

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learnning a live learning platform that's helped upskillover 2 million people over the past three decades

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joining us in a moment is Deborah mcgoffin and she's here toshare how leaders can develop change ability the

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essential skill to not just manage change but to thrivethrough it we'll be asking Deborah to share her insights on

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assessing team Readiness for change how unlearning fuelsuccess and why psychological safety is a secret to

What Is Changeability? – Debora explains the concept ofchangeability and how it empowers leaders to create their future.

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agility in your book you say the future isn't scary if we'rethe ones creating

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it what do you mean by that well absolutely I think thatsometimes we feel like we don't have control you know

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especially with technology changes you political CHeverything that's happening in our world is AD missed with so many

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change and it's easy enough to say well things are happeningto us but no I actually believe that the future is not

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scary if you're the one creating it if you're setting yourpath and seeing what your role is in it well this is the the

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topic of your most recent book changeability that we'redefinitely going to get into today and for our listeners this is really a umgoing to

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be a terrific opportunity to focus on what does it mean tobe adaptable and changeable um moving forwards because

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this is demanded of us in this AI world that we're going toget into um and you bring a ton of expertise to this this is

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not your first book not your first rodeo you might say so uhwith that theme can you give our list there as a little bit

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of a your your story your background how did you come tothis to this moment of helping people around adaptability and

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change yes well you know i' I've also you know had a had acorporate career

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and you know bringing Technology Solutions that myorganizations that I I brought them to might have not not even

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heard of so having seen the organizations that quicklyadopted you know changes in technology and were

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willing to give up you know their treasured semiconductorrooms sizes of

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computers to their desktop you know I've seen how theyevolved and so seeing who

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didn't make it and who did you know really started me onthis liking ability

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of change disruption if we think of that and then I've alsoum when because I'm

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adaptable when my commute from New Hampshire to Boston gotyou know sidetracked by a very long Bridge

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construction I never knew when I was going to get home to mynanny watching my kids I decided to dust off my

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psychology license and go into practice and lo and beholdthe people who took up

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space on my couch or what have you were professionalsworking in the organizations facing change and were

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very stressed out with their teams and that's and realizingagain like this

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essence of you know you can change or you can't change oryou can adapt or you choose not to and now you have you know

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the repercussions of that and then when I heard that therewas a career called coaching in 2003 I jumped right into it

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and you know really have been in it ever since so workingwith leaders and teams and organizations you know facing change

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and destruction as well as personal change why isadaptability such an important thing to focus on right now

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and then I and then I think we'll start to get into yourbook changeability I think that there are several reasons that why it's soimportant so let's take

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them kind of looking at a organization or a team or apersonal level and from an organization perspective there the

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lifespan of an organization used to be like 75 years so theywould kind of

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reinvent their product or their process maybe at year 45 andthen it went to 15

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and most recently it's down to six which means if you're notReinventing as an

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organization and reimagining new possibilities for yourselfby year two or three or an ongoing basis your

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business might not exist and so what's happening with teamsin organizations

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and and struggling leaders trying to get teams to be moreadaptive is that they're faced with you know if they want

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to be relevant they also have to step up to the change butas a personal level I

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mean it is AAP scary thing and people are frightened rightnow because they're afraid you know is AI going to take over

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my job am I going to have to learn a new skill set when I'vebeen really successful at what I do and even you

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know what's what's going to happen with my on my way to workI was listening to the radio today and they were talking about you knowgovernment people

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returning back to work well that's lifechanging for manypeople after many years right and so it's really relevant

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in all three of those levels you know asking the question ofhow do we react mentally you know to change and are we

The Three-Legged Stool – Debora introduces her framework:change leadership, adaptability, and agility, and how they supportorganizational success.

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really equipped with a skill set to adapt in your book it'scalled changeability how do you defined CH

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changeability yes well it's really about having and I throwthe energy in there because I think energy is really

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important it's the it's the mindset and the energy and thecapacity to be able to not only lead a change that you have

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been given perhaps but also to be able to imagineopportunities within obstacle

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to see what possibilities there might be for yourself or anorganization or a

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team or a new or a customer you really focus on athree-legged stool can you share with us what those uh three legs

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are and how they support each other yes and and you know Ilike that you use it terminology because I find it's a

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success a good metaphor so yes in in the book I um I useboth storytelling of you

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know some of my clients might wonder is this me and maybeit's a composite of you that is in the in the book but

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really Three core you know three-legged stools which isabout change leadership understanding you know that

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there's different what what self-awareness of my ability tolead like if I a Visionary leader as a senior

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leader that's quite different than a person in the trenchesthat's an Executor or get it done or could be

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different than somebody who's really a heart-c centeredleader so self-awareness of my leadership style and how to adap apt to otherstyles so

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that you bring people along and then adaptability which forthe first time we can actually measure you know 15 degrees

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of adaptability of different dimensions as well as changeReadiness and res skillability at the individual team and

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organization level and then agility I mean speed is ofessence right we have a

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A desperate need for speed and I'm not talking about agilein regards to

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systems or processes I'm not talking about change in regardsto whether you losing a counter method or a proy or

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whatever I'm talking about the people aspect or change withthose three-legged stools can you give us like some

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examples of um how you do that especially if you're maybenot a Visionary leader as you said you're more

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of a people leader like how do how will how should differentleaders approach this yes well I'll give you a a favor

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tip is is that you know people tend to kind of fall into twocategories is not

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stereotyping anybody but there it's either head heart orhand so head is

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what is the goal what's the vision you know heart is how isthis going to be related to people my team my customers

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and hands are how are we going to get it done maybe anoperational side and so if

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you understand if you can listen well enough to someone thatyou're speaking to and say oh that's a head harder hands

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style of person and you start to communicate at that levelthen you can

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have a better more effective conversation so for instance ifsomebody is a high Visionary they're not going to

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want to tune into all the details of the road map of how toget there from an Executor type of person you know or

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somebody's heart centered and you're not talking aboutpeople they're going to feel like you know your change that

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you're proposing is a little cold and they're not going tobuy into it because they're worried about people so that

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just very simply um understand yeah you ahead heart handsperson and what are

Understanding Leadership Styles – Debora shares how knowingwhether you lead with your head, heart, or hands can transform communicationand collaboration.

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the people around you and are you speaking their samelanguage but then I would also imagine if you're more of a

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Visionary you might be more comfortable with changechangeability but if you're more of the heart or the hands person

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you might have a hard time with it as well um what do yousay to those leaders who need to also Embrace change oh yes

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and I and as you can imagine you know my top scores ofchange leadership are both

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Visionary a high coach and Visionary secondary and and myhands I have to

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have hire hire people around me right to do that Excelspreadsheet or other things or build the road map of our

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schedule of delivery and things so the answer is we can't beall three proficiently so you have to ask you know

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how can I utilize someone on my team that's making up for myyou know missing area or how can I you know if you're a

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business owner hire for somebody or is it a skill that youyou know can somewhat um develop but also know if

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it's something that's painful for you maybe you only do it15 minutes at a time for your business accounting if

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that's just not your thing and one of the keys to all thisis adaptability so

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can you share why Deborah we believe that adaptability couldbe the most important skill for the future in

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general yes and I you know I certainly could cite a numberof different you know research that has come out but

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anybody can find those on their own of the statistics is towhy is adaptability one of the top competencies

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um for individuals to have and why is it that you knowExecutives CEOs and hiring

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people are looking for people that are adaptable thisbecause they know the environment is in a state of constant

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change so they need people who can keep up and soadaptability measures you know

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how do I adapt you know as an individual but also whatenvironment you know do we

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need to be able to thrive and adapt so for instance ifthere's a lot of stress in your office environment or in your in

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your team or if there's you know low mental health or youfeel like you're not supported by your team members all

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of those things erode the viability of adaptability in anindividual team or

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organization do you ever find that people are adaptable on apersonal level but

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struggle with it at work or vice versa Oh yes totally andand that's interesting and some of the feedback

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that I've received on on book is you know what people tendto resonate is this one gentleman's story and Raj in

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the book you know because Raj is a Visionary works for ahighly successful Cloud you know company and but he sees

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opportunities you know where the company should be goinghe's looking around you know the corners already but in that

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mental state of struggle of like how do I get you know theresources to buy in from senior level people who want to

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focus on that what's work working successfully that Legacyproduct you know our Legacy customer how you know

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how do I run down the hall with my excitement and Shout outmy idea and so it's a it's a personal struggle because

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you can't just land a big giant idea you have to kind ofGloom it along you know

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so other people can get to it and and even with um thatchange leadership assessment I remember a a CEO saying to

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me oh my gosh now I get why the ideas I get in the showerthat I totally know going to work just laying dead on my

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conference room table with my executive teeth do you havesome tips for people around how to enroll people in your

Adaptability as a Superpower – Debora emphasizes whyadaptability is the most sought-after skill and how it impacts individuals,teams, and organizations.

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vision for change yes um certainly because I mean you knowcommunication is a key component of of anything right and

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so again it's starting with that what's in it for them youlike understanding you know if that person is a a numbers

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person right you know if they head head all about you knowprofitability or numers start you know how your idea is

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going to fit in with the numbers if they're a people personthen start with how it's going to be you know great for

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our customers or or whomever in the people side or the handsreally tie it

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in especially with the hands you know tie it into how theycould possibly do it operationally because people are

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already overwhelmed with the number of projects they alreadyhave going on you said there there was 15 Dimensions to

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adaptability that's that's more than I would have haveexpected uh I guess I this is a silly question but what are

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your favorites my favorite dimensions are the ones that areparticular to the individual which is you know how do I

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rate in regards to adaptability and you know just to back itup for a moment I mean the good news

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is even though there's that many dimensions there's commonlythree that are correlated to the top you know like

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business issues like if you're looking you know to improveretention there's really three you know that are

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associated with this so there's correl but to get back to mytop ones which you

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know for adaptability is mindset is one of the ones which iswhat is your view

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of any change you know do you immediately go into thathiding space of the dark cave or do you just sit back

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and think you know is there opportunity of this and thenmental flexibility which is you know kind of holding even

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contrarian thoughts together and or even thinking um like Imight have a

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perspective but also holding the thought like how might mycustomer think about this you know or somebody else right two

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different things and then there then what's often talkedabout is resilience you know my ability to bounce back from

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something but I think adaptability is more about leapingforward um than bouncing back and and grit which

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surprisingly people might think oh it's great to have grit Ican just push on through but sometimes an overuse of grit

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means that you're you know you're overwhelmed you're burningyourself out so I you know it's

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not always a good thing and then probably one of my otherfavorites but

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under thought of is unlearn which is you know how do youstep away from learning

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something you know we all had flip phones at one time rightyou know now we have technology on our wrist you know

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learning something that you knew well or was even successfulat and suddenly having new learning to take on and I I

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think that's what a lot of you know people are hit with nowwith changes in at their workplaces new learning and

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feeling like that kindergartener at the first day of schoolAdent my question is

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how can being or creating a learning culture learningenvironment help build

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adaptability Oh yes totally I mean it really I would sayit's an integral part because in a learning environment if

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it's also meshed with psychological safety meaning thatpeople can ask questions

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that there's nothing you know foolish about it that they canbe unsure and

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seen as students you know that are learning meaning thatthere's not an expectation that you should know this

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already it that that that that Fosters adaptability becauseit starts the mindset of that mental flexibility and

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and and you know a learning opportunity and seeing newpossibilities because as people are learning new tools they're

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starting to think well how might I use them right how youknow how about whether it's personally or professionally how can this tool beused

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so Deborah the Third Leg of the stool is agility what is thedifference between

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organizational agility and individual uh adaptability yeswell if we think about

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it and again removing you know the process mindset we're nottalking about waterfall or any of those processes but

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at the speed of decision making and you know everything hasspeed speed it up

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otherwise we're going to missed the mark you know onsomething so individual agility means that we don't have the

Building Psychological Safety – Debora discusses theimportance of creating environments where teams feel safe to learn, fail, andinnovate.

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time and the space to have you know numerous conversationsabout something and what I find that speeds individual

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um agility and decision making and movement forward is ifindividuals in

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their workplace are really clear about what the goal isright it's been clearly said but also if they Al understand the

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decision filters um that senior leaders might use so thathow they decide about something

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because like you brought up the three-legged stool earlierso to give you an example u i I've worked with one

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client had that has a three-legged stool um in his in hisbusiness and that every

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employee has to talk about anything that they're bringingforward in the terms of how is this good for our company our

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employees and our customers and so every conversation bringscomes forward with

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those three decision filters um and it doesn't matter whatlevel within the

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organization so people can be more agile to change if theyunderstand the reasons

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behind it and the decision filters of their senior leadersadaptability isn't like it's just a freeer all the time you

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need to like what should you adapt to and what should younot adapt to and how do you uh have some consistency within

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this process feel like that's a tension for people sometimeswhen it comes to understanding uh what what should I be

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changing and what should I not be changing yes well one ofthe a couple of the dimensions that kind of fall into

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that into that context is the there's both um thinking stylelike am I a big

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picture thinker or a detail printer but but also motivationstyle which is am I

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motivated to play to protect or am I motivated to play towin and so and and

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actually one of my um one of my client organizations wasrecently written about

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I didn't write the article but in a Harvard Business articleabout that complexity of the mindset when you have

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people who are play to protect and you have people that areplay to win and the truth is you need the balance because

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like with Raj and his organization we need the play toprotect people with the Legacy products that have made the

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company so successful but we also need the play to win tolook around what's coming around the corers and so it's

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understanding your team like if you're trying to do a playto win thing and you're speaking to someone who is

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playing to protect you have to convert that language intowhy it fits into what

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they already know and have safeguarded whereas if you'retalking to

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a clay to to win person they're going to get all excited andriled up about you know where where you're

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going so it's making sure that you understand you know whodo who do you have who are these people right how do

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you talk to them differently but to understand as anorganization we need both to survive to sustain for today but

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also to grow for tomorrow how do you approach helping peopleand then we'll see if we can tease out some things that

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our listeners could do just for themselves and I I think youstart with assessments yes yes I do start with

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assessments because really for two reasons one is speed youknow we could SP have spent many coaching sessions

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together and not discovered you know what an assessmentmight reveal and so I

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do always start with you know a number of differentdifferent types of Assessments whatever is relevant and so

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with with the adaptability assessment at the individuallevel it's understanding you know what might be those bothersome

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things for me you know at work but understanding why theymight exist and then actually um the assessment comes

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with a dashboard so that if I wanted to improve my grit orresilience for example you know there is you know a

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dashboard of TED Talks articles you know book all differentthings that you can improve your your grit or any of those

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types of things so at the individual level like if some I'mworking with a client now that um there also isn't bold

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when it comes to conflict which a lot of people we're eithertoo bold or we not bold enough right so to be able to do an

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a conflict style and to understand you know am I am I highlycompetitive when

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it comes to conflict or am I an avoider or am I tooaccommodating I mean the

Turning Resistance into Opportunity – Debora sharesstrategies for helping teams and individuals overcome resistance to change.

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data gives us insight to be able to quickly move into thecoaching that's appropriate for the individual do you

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find after people do the assessment that they're surprisedwith their level of adaptability well sometimes and and I

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think it's with all assessments I mean I've I've done somany there's always the question like I didn't know about

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that question or you know they always question theassessment validity first

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right but but yes they did there are surprises you knowcertainly and um

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having and and also like I'm currently working with anorganization to improve customer satisfaction scores and they've

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all taken the adaptability assessment but also surprised tosee

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that and I work with them that if a lot of people it's it'sa very highly compliant organization so there much

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more about play to protect so what I know from thatinformation is hearing

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from customers and what the customers needs that we have totake small incremental steps to improve customer

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satisfaction scores we can't do something radical becausethis a team of people are not going to move towards radical as quickly but thatmight be

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totally different you know and another organization whatmakes for a good assessment like what should somebody if

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I'm trying to look at the landscape of like I need to assessmy team what goes into a good assessment about qualitative

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things like this yes well I think it's certainly making sureit's relative to what you're trying to achieve and really

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asking yourself like even finding that out about conflictmanagement styles you

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know is it because you have conflict that exist do you wantto improve it in that or the adap the adaptability is

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relevant to a number of different things if you're if you'refacing change if you want to proove the you know the agility

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you know of your people if you have retention you knowconcerns or if you have a big digital transformation you're

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rolling out in your organization and you want to see whoearly adopters are versus your leers so that you can spend

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more training time with the leers um you know you can dothat as well so it's the relevancy but then also looking at um

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what types of Assessments might your people enjoy doingbecause I think people are over assessed especially within

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organizations and and also more importantly how is theinformation going

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to be used so for instance in this team that I'm currentlyworking with I'm not reporting any individual ual

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adaptability scores to the organization they've got them ontheir own they understand how to interpret them and

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they understand how to improve upon them if they wish butinstead we're looking at how is the overall adaptability

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scores related to customer satisfaction and delivering thatwhat are some key indicators of a team's Readiness for

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change yes well a couple different things is as one you knowin that case since it's an organ organization wide

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the the the adaptability assessment also gives you a changeReadiness score you

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know of your organization and and and of the teams becauseit might be different teams that are more highly adaptable

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than than others but it also looks at your environment andbecause again if

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you have an environment where there's not psychologicalsafety where people don't you know don't feel that that

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they're supported by the company you know or they don't feelsupported by the team or there's High work stress or a

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lot of you know organizations that talking about Wellness inthe organization I mean it's being aware of

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those environmental factors that might influence you knowhow how fast your people are going to move or not or what

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resistance you might be met with and then to address thosethings at the same time as you're doing your change

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implementation you know as a consultant to an organizationor or a coach I'm really kind of just the bridge builder

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of interpreting the data you know and and understanding thegoals right the vision of the organization or the goals

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and then only you know providing what's relevant in thatbuilding of the bridge can you give us some examples of

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companies that you worked with you know not necessarilynaming names but examples of where this has been done

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well and maybe even some examples when it hasn't been doneso well yes thinking of you know what may be relevant to a

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number of different organizations is that you know no nodepartment works by itself they have to partner with other

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other departments right so so one is how especially ifyou're supporting other department how do you move from being

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viewed as a transactional support team and versus astrategic partner so in

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order to develop and see yourself as a strategic partner toother business

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units and internally you know first is and and working witha a team that

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wanted to you know make that shift of developing strategicPartnerships with other departments first we had to work

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on the adaptability piece about the like the mindset likeidentifying what is a strategic partner anyways you know what

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does that mean to me you know how you know does it mean I'ma you know I an

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expert does it mean that I'm you know a colleague a partneryou know really identifying what that means to me but

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then also looking at the mindset because in working withthat particular team

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that had kind of worked very proficiently as a silo um thatthere were some individuals with that team

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that weren't as excited about going out and meeting more ofother departments

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right there might be a little bit more introverted or shybut doing the skill building of as a strategic partner you

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know how do I show up in those meetings knowing that I'm shyor afraid to have them and then some coaching around what

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do I say in those meetings how do I present myself as astrategic partner how do I show that I'm adding value um

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or even how do I make sure that my priority is as importantto this other department that I need support in you

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know to convince them to support me and then and you know tobe able to have that you know resilience and the

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willingness to see the opportunity of who do you become inthis new process of

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becoming a strategic partner and that so that's where theadaptability assessment had some loots but then grew into the

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building of the Strategic partnership and then we were ableto actually track

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because of some Financial impact 162% return on investmentof that particular

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project you said something in there too that I feel like wealways are working on to try to get better and

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better at is you can tell people what the change is thatneeds to happen but it has so much in how you do it like you

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said it's like specifically how you say it and that's whereI feel like coaching

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can be so valuable because for each person it can be alittle bit different about how this to get from here's what

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you need to do to here's how you personally get there yesand sometimes I find and I'm actually coaching a team

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about this now is it's not as much about um telling is it isasking for example

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and and so for this particular team that's working on thethe customer satisfaction scores what I found after

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interviewing customers is that the team members are excitedto meet their needs they write it down on a piece of paper

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or whatever they run off and they go and do it but theircustomers are saying sometimes I don't get what I'm looking

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for they you know I don't know if they understand what myrequest is so coaching them about asking three clear

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three to five clarifying questions like asking you know whatif you're looking

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for this um you know item in your dashboard of your budgetyou know how might that be helpful for you you know

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what's the impact of not having that information so theyunderstand the frustration level they understand why

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the person wants it and and even you know if if you were toget that what type of form do you wanted it you to be

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able to ask some clarifying questions and it's the same waywhen you're talking about change it's

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being able to ask the people you know do you see how thisfits you know does it do you see where we're going with this

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do you see why this decision was even made you know what youwhat do you see as your role in this how can I support

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you in this buddy so do you have a tip for helping leadersget that across to

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their team if they don't if they don't see the the value inthe in the change well I mean it is about the

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communication of again of by the changes taking place in allof that and but I'll

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you know I'll I'll tell you you know it really is aboutShifting the mindset and you have to bring in the people along

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and and I'll share when I was a my brief stint as apsychotherapist I used to

30:12

specialize in in obsessive compulsive disorder I mean peoplewho were really trapped in their homes and their own

30:18

mindset couldn't you know get out without touching the doorknob 60 times and one like one person was afraid of of

30:26

contamination and dust and I purposely told the janitorialservice not to clean my office so that when she came in you

30:32

know she might have to touch the surfaces so sometimes orsomebody was afraid of getting in the elevator day

30:39

one is like okay there's an elevator outside my hall let'sgo do it together I mean sometimes we do have to get

30:46

thrown into things right because that's just how the worldis but we can bring

30:51

things along by understanding what were those people's youknow fear or hesitancy or what is they're really

30:57

thinking of about it you know I I I knew you know what theunderlying Roots were

31:03

of my psych my psychology clients as to what we need what weneeded to pull out

31:08

as the roots that were keeping them trapped in their homesor they you know overly clean for those people that

31:15

aren't really that don't have that sort of same appetitethat you do yeah I've jumped around I'm a lifelong learner I

31:22

probably learned at a very young you know age to adopt adifferent circumstances so I'm certain cly you

31:28

know probably more on the the adaptable side you know therefor the Renegade leader name right of the company but

31:34

certainly understanding that you know people are feel safein what they know

31:40

right they feel safe in the jobs that they've beensuccessful in and they're also not feeling as safe now being asked

31:47

to change and also being you're seeing these statistics ofyou know jobs might

31:52

be gone you might have to learn a whole different thing adifferent way and so

31:58

to really ask yourself I mean what might I just want to takethat baby step into

32:03

you know and learning and I love your organization because Ithink self-learning really helps to open the

32:10

doorway of the mind I you know I think little hinges open upbig doors so taking one class right could open up a

32:18

whole new Avenue for somebody and you know so sometimes it'sthe willingness to realize you know little hinges open

32:24

up big doors and what is your little step that you couldtake what is one thing that we haven't talked about today

32:31

Deborah that you want to share with uh with us about yourbook well I did enjoy

32:36

writing the stories in the in the book I mean I I really didyou know enjoy that my husband doesn't know that he's

32:43

actually featured in a couple of them but but and one ofthem I you know I

32:48

forget where it is in in the book or whatever I mean it'slike you very simple I came home one day and we had

32:54

like this you know stairwell going up with a big palladianwindow and a grand for year and my husband's up in the

32:59

bedroom trapped in there because a bird isn't in our bedroomand when I arrive

33:05

he asked me he's got it all planned out and my husband's youknow my husband's a

33:11

dentist so everything lines up in his life the tools arewhere they're supposed to be teeth are pretty much

33:16

where they're supposed to be you know whereas I'm all overthe place so so when I go up there at the top of the

The Power of Unlearning – Debora highlights why unlearningoutdated habits is just as important as acquiring new skills.

33:22

stairs and I open up the door and he's like go close itreally fast and everything because there's a bird in here then he laid out hisvery strategic

33:29

plan he wants me to get a white sheet from the linen closetin the hall then to open up the door and then somehow I'm

33:36

going to hold the sheet while the bird you know goes downthe stairwell and out the front door and it was in the you

33:44

know in the late fall and we take our screens off to put youknow winter reefs and for the holidays on our windows and

33:51

I knew the screen was off and I said or we could just openup the window and sure enough I opened up the window and

33:57

out the bird went and and that's kind of like how we gettrapped into our own

34:02

thinking of even making it bigger and harder than it is andsometimes and you know I think I wrote your know

34:08

changeability is your as your window you know just to youknow find your way out of all this change that that's that's

34:15

happening but and he doesn't know that that story is abouthim I really love this expression little hinges open up

34:22

big doors and if I was to encapsulate some of the thingsthat I'm taking away from this that certainly as we move

34:29

forwards we're talking about adaptability but even step backa little bit your window is actually changeability because it's going to

34:35

include things like that ability to help um lead throughchange to be able to

34:40

develop your own adaptability that would be theinterpersonal and intrapersonal skills and there's a lot of them but but

34:47

there are things that are attainable and then of course thatagility the ability to to uh create some speed and scale you

34:53

talked a lot about things that I just think are so importantlike um the psychological safety um uh leaping

35:02

forward like resilience is really leaping forward that's abetter way to to think about it and be careful of like

35:09

grit and of course that ability to unlearn not just learnthere's there's

35:14

uh a lot here head heart hands what is your style so uhthat's an invitation to

35:20

our listeners to explore some of these ideas and of courseas no Damon's GNA gonna lean into like how people can can

35:26

reach out to you but before we get there I want to give aspecial shout out to be

35:32

chalette for introducing us be was a fantastic guest we'llput her episode in

35:37

the show notes but yes Deborah how can we connect with youyes well certainly have happy to connect with people on

35:43

LinkedIn I I post different Mini case studies there thatmight be know provide this you know some instantly ready ready

35:50

to use um tips I also you know if anybody wants to scheduleyou know how

35:55

would this work for me I it's just simply schedule withDebra d.com you know makes it light and easy

36:03

and you know certainly you know happy to can help you toconnect in any any way I know I'm excited we talked about this

36:09

before we went on air that learned is gonna uh engage withyou and your team on the adaptability assessments so we're

36:17

really looking forward to that and for everybody out thereuh do me a favor

36:22

rate and review uh the learn at all podcast on whateverplatform you're on and if you're a leader out there where

36:28

you know of a leader who wants to uh continue to grow andevolve and change their organization do me a favor and

36:35

send this episode to them because I know they're they'regoing to get value out of it and so I'd like to close it with

36:41

what I always say right Darren is stay curious keep learningand have a great day everybody thank you culture is the

36:48

ultimate competitive advantage of our age and I think youknow you look at you

36:54

know Forbes or fast company or you know Harvard Businessreview and there's a

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